A few weeks ago, I managed to squeeze in a quick lunch with the very busy Julie Hall of Springmedia and Women Unlimited. (Yes, she really does run two companies. And a family. She’s, like, Superwoman!) Over a jacket potato we discussed positive discrimination (we disagreed), the UK versus the North American work ethic, and the tools she uses to help her run her two businesses.

Turner Ink: Not only do you run Springmedia, a successful web design company, you’re also the founder of Women Unlimited, an online networking group aimed at business women. How did that come about?
Julie Hall: I created Women Unlimited in 2008 to be the kind of community and network I wished I’d had when I started my own business back in 2000.

Only 15% of small businesses have women owners. And given that we are 48% of the workforce, I figured there needed to be a place that encouraged women into entrepreneurship and helped them to succeed.

TI: Why did you want a women’s group? Do you think women have different business needs?
JH: No, I don’t think that women have different business needs. But many of them do lack confidence and business experience. So we aim to fill in the gaps and show them what’s possible.

TI: So how does Women Unlimited help women in business?
JH: Well, we offer practical advice and support via daily articles and blog posts, and the social networking groups. And of course we run events and workshops, which give women the skills they need.

The LinkedIn Group has been a great surprise to me, because it’s turned into a very supportive place for women to ask questions and connect with each other.

TI: Are women more supportive of each other in business then or is that just a myth?
JH: That’s an interesting question. I think it depends on the person. I’m a girls’ girl. I love women and talking with them and finding out what they’re doing. Women Unlimited’s events have a great reputation for being really inspiring and fun. One woman, called it a ‘spa for my mind’.

TI: I attended a WU event last year. The speakers were fantastic. It was an inspiring afternoon
JH: Yes, the events are workshops are well attended and very popular. We run a few big events on and around International Women’s Day (March 2011) and we run specialist events for different types of businesses. We’ve just completed one for the food industry.

TI: So what are Women Unlimited’s plans for the future?
JH: We’re launching a membership area and taking our training courses and events to other cities in the UK.

TI: Ok, I’m going to ask it – what are your thoughts on positive discrimination?
JH: [Laughing] You know this is one of my soapbox speeches! I’m in favour of positive discrimination because without it, change will take 50 years. I think what’s going on in France and Norway is a great example of how to do it. However, I think culturally in the UK it won’t be possible to bring positive discrimination in because there’s so much resistance to the idea.

TI: As a Canadian, do you think British women work differently?
JH: You’ll probably hate this, but North Americans definitely work harder than their UK counterparts. The whole work-life balance thing is just not something that they stress about in the same way we do here. They have less holidays and work longer hours. Though, I’m not saying that’s better. And even though we scorn the personal development culture that they have in North America, they are much more success oriented and less prone to let fear stand in their way.

TI: So who or what has been your greatest influence in business and why?
JH: A guy by the name of Peter Massey. He was my first boss in the UK and gave me my first break. He also taught me that sometimes lack of knowledge about something can create innovation and shouldn’t hold you back from trying something out.

TI: What other business women have inspired you?
JH: I’m inspired by all the business women that I meet. They all have their own visions, passions and ideas that they want to share with the world. I’m very lucky in that many successful women have supported what we’re doing by speaking at our events; people like Camila Batmangelidgh, founder of the Kids’ Company, Claire Burnet, founder of Chococo and Polly Gowers, the founder of Everyclick.

TI: How can other women succeed online?
JH: I recommend that everyone has a clear business model before they start. Unfortunately, there is no magic bullet. The best advice I would have is to find a product that people want to buy, be very clear on your differentiation, make sure that you have a way of connecting with your target market and just do it.

TI: What are your favourite business books?
JH: I have shelves and shelves of business books. Some of my favourites are The Art of the Start by Guy Kawasaki, The E-Myth by Michael Gerber and From Acorns by Caspian Wood.

TI: What would you say is your greatest professional accomplishment to date?
JH: Hmm, I’m not very good at this kind of question… but I was absolutely thrilled at pulling off a conference with 250 women back in March.

TI: What’s the best advice you have received that you’d like to pass on?
JH: Don’t do it all yourself. Build a strong team around you. Do the things that you are good at and bring in exceptional people to fill in the gaps. Your team should include mentors, advisers and team members who can each bring you one step closer to your goal

TI: That’s great advice Julie. Finally, are there any resources or tools you’d like to share with other small business owners that have helped you run your business?
JH: So many tools! I’d recommend WordPress, Go To Webinar for teleseminars, Tungle.me for scheduling, someone just shared Echosign with me for online contracts, Eventbrite for organising events, Conference Genie for free conference calling, and the British Library BIPC for research and events.

Julie Hall is the MD of Springmedia which specialises in web design and development, logo design, email newsletter creation, blogging customisation, web consultancy and social media strategy.

She is also CEO of Women Unlimited an online community for female entrepreneurs.

Connect with Julie on Twitter, LinkedIn and Facebook.

This month, I’ve managed to grab a few moments with digital marketing expert Matt Sawyer (who was one of the first industry bods I ever followed on Twitter). Matt heads up the online marketing department over at digital agency Datadial. We talked about link campaigns, the best blogs to read and why is the SEO industry coming in for some flak?

Turner Ink: You’ve been head of SEO and digital marketing at Datadial for five years now Matt. What’s changed in the industry since you joined?
Matt Sawyer: Everything and nothing. I see a lot of talk about how SEO is constantly changing, but really the fundamentals have remained the same – good content in a well organised and well structured website.

Social media has really changed link development though, and it’s forced SEOs to think a lot more creatively about who will link to them and why.

TI: So where is the SEO industry heading? What’s it going to look like in 5 years’ time?
MS: I think we’re going to be a lot more integrated with other marketing disciplines. To a lot of people we’re always the geeks in the room at the end of the corridor that nobody really understands. I think the industry itself is partly to blame for that.

Over the last couple of years though, SEOs have become far more closely integrated with development, sales, marketing and editorial teams and we’re doing a much better job of educating people, not just on what we do and why we do it, but also how it complements their roles.

TI: That’s interesting. Because there’s been a bit of SEO bashing online lately. (This is the post that springs to mind.) What are your thoughts?
MS: I completely understand why people feel that way when so many people have had bad experiences with SEOs. I think there is a real knowledge gap between the marketing managers and SMB owners that are buying-in the services and the companies that are selling them. Unfortunately, this either leads to companies taking advantage of this, or services being mis-sold.

TI: Ok Matt, how do you execute an SEO strategy? What do you do specifically?
MS: Generally for us it falls into four distinct stages:
1. Site architecture – ensuring the site is technically correct. Everything from making sure all the pages are reachable by search engines, to checking for duplicate content issues.
2. Site structure – checking that the site is organised logically, with relevant category pages.
3. Keyword research and page optimisation.
4. Link building and social media strategy.

TI: Yes, links are a major factor in the success of a site’s SERPS positioning aren’t they? How easy or difficult is it to get quality links?
MS: Links are THE biggest factor in rankings for competitive phrases. Getting good quality links is easy. Getting them in large enough quantities is harder. Social media has made the process easier and more scaleable, but you still have to rely on great ideas to make things work.

TI: I’ve locked horns with a number of so-called SEO experts who are more concerned with the mechanics of SEO and don’t give a hoot about the quality of the writing. What are your thoughts?
MS: Always write for users. There’s no point getting visitors to a page if it looks like it’s been written by a 5 year old (or me for that matter). There is no reason why a page can’t be optimised as well as written with conversions in mind.

TI: Well, I totally agree with that! What SEO tools do you use?
MS: I think most people would be surprised how few tools SEOs really use. I think there’s a misconception that we automate everything. But really the only tools we use are those that speed-up fairly menial tasks or give us more metrics to play with in Excel.

For example we use a ranking checker to monitor site rankings changes. I also use the Open Site Explorer to pull link data and site metrics into Excel. Majestic should also get an honourable mention here. I also like using Xenu which can spider an entire site, extract page metrics and export all of the data to a .csv file.

TI: Do you only optimise for Google?
MS: Realistically, yes. In the UK, especially, they have such an obscene share of the search market that they have to be the search engine that’s at the forefront of your strategy. However, most search engines work in similar ways, so you’ll find that most SEO work brings similar benefits on all search engines.

TI: But is Bing becoming more important?
MS: Slowly. I’m seeing its search share gradually start to creep up, and before long Yahoo will start to serve Bing results.

TI: What other services do you offer at Datadial?
MS: We’re a full service agency. So we do everything from design, development and hosting, through to digital marketing, email marketing and ebusiness consultancy.

TI: I know you handle online PR and reputation management for clients as well and you’ve developed an in-house reputation monitoring tool. Tell us how that works.
MS: Our reputation monitoring tool works by pulling together lots of different data sources – such as Google (news and blogs), Twitter mentions, RSS feeds and several others, which it then parses for mentions of the client name. These are then displayed in an admin control panel. A lot of similar services tend to over-complicate things, so we have tried to go the other way and keep thing as simple as possible for the user while retaining functionality.

TI: You and I are both on Twitter quite a bit. Are you finding clients want to jump on the social media bandwagon no matter what their product or service?
MS: A lot of people seem to decide that they want to do social media before they have thought about why they’re doing it and what they want to get out of it. Some companies are made for social media; others need to think about culture change before they engage in social media.

The key thing to remember is that consumers aren’t always the best group for your company to try to engage with. Often, it’s better to network online with the bloggers and journalists in your industry.

TI: Talking of bloggers – you write for the Datadial blog Matt. And, of course, you write for own blog. What topics do you cover?
MS: With the Datadial blog we write primarily for our clients, on (hopefully) interesting topics and issues that affect them and their business.

My own blog has actually been around for several years in one form or another, and I tend to use it to organise my own thoughts and rants more than anything else. I have been known to post at 3am when I have ideas that I need to get down somewhere!

TI: I hate to think what I’d blog at 3am! What other blogs do you read or recommend?
MS: The SEOMoz blog is fantastic, both for advanced SEOs and novices alike. The range of topics covered and the resources that they have available really are second to none.

Other than that I regularly read (and recommend) EConsultancy, SEOptimise, Apple Pie And Custard (who also win the prize for the strangest name), Search Engine Land, Malcolm Coles and SEO By The Sea.

TI: And last question Matt. What does a normal day look like for you?
MS: Normally I get into the office by seven. I cycle into West London from Surrey and spend around an hour reading my RSS feeds and answering emails. These days I tend to get more involved in the technical and strategic side of SEO, so that will include everything from site audits to planning structure and then organising the link and content development and social strategy. It seems I spend a lot more time at client meetings these days, so I’ll be out and about for much of the day.

TI: Thanks Matt. See you on Twitter.

Matt Sawyer is head of SEO and digital marketing at London-based digital agency Datadial and is considered one of the most influential SEOs in the UK.

He works with a wide range of clients and industries: from internationally recognized businesses to small, niche brands. His specialities include integrated digital marketing, SEO (on-page and off-page optimisation)

social media, digital PR, PPC, link development strategies and online marketing consulting.

On Twitter he describes himself as a social media junkie, part-time blogger, and full-time timewaster. Follow Matt on Twitter.

This is the second part of my interview with Andy Maslen. (Read part one here where Andy reveals the inspiration for his latest book, what he really thinks about content mills and why he proofreads his tweets.)

TI: So tell us a bit more about your background Andy. How did you get into this copywriting malarkey?
AM: I was booted out of my job as a marketing director and needed to replace my income. Since I was always sneaking off to write copy, this seemed like a good direction to go in. Copywriting was always my favourite part of the job, from when I joined that company as a marketing assistant.

TI: You’ve now been a copywriter for over 24 years. What’s been your best project in that time?
AM: Easy! The renewal series I wrote a couple of years ago for BBC Top Gear Magazine. Nothing has ever come close to writing a sales letter from Jeremy Clarkson.

TI: My best projects are where clients give me free stuff! Ok, so what’s been your most successful project?
AM: I’ve written a few control-beating DM packs over the years. Just recently, an integrated campaign we created for a b2b magazine went 30% over target. That was satisfying.

TI: So would you consider yourself a specialist or a generalist?
AM: I’m a specialist. In direct marketing copy for publishers and membership organisations. And in b2b copy. But I’ll write about virtually anything as long as it’s legal and doesn’t make my hair stand on end.

TI: Do you prefer writing direct copy over web copy then? Or do you enjoy writing any type of copy?
AM: I love it all, but if it was my last day in harness and I could choose anything to write, give me a direct mail letter for a consumer magazine.

TI: And do you have a particular time of the day you prefer to write?
AM: Yes. 8.30 am – 11.00 am and 3.00pm – 6.00pm.

TI: What’s your favourite part of the copywriting process? Do you enjoy research? Immersing yourself in someone else’s business? Or getting down to the writing?
AM: If you categorise copywriters as researchers, planners or writers, then I’m a writer. Nothing beats the pleasure of getting a sentence just right – so that any other words or structure wouldn’t be as good. But, truthfully, you can’t do that unless you’ve also figured out how to achieve the client’s objectives. I love selling too – that feeling when you’ve just closed a deal is pretty sweet.

TI: What’s the single best investment you’ve made in your copywriting career?
AM: A copy of How to Write Sales Letters That Sell by Drayton Bird. And my chair, a Haag. (Whoops, that’s two.)

TI: We’ll allow that! Any copywriting horror stories you want to share?
AM: At 38, being told to do something less than sensible in a briefing meeting by a client who justified it by saying, “I think I know what I’m talking about – I do have two years’ experience of marketing”. Me sitting there biting my tongue and reflecting that I was writing copy professionally when she was learning about verbs and nouns.

TI: Aaah yes. I was once told by a client that she didn’t think she needed a copywriter because she had an English O’ Level and could do it herself.
AM: [Laughing] Others include arguing with a client, while jetlagged, thinking, “I can win this”. Oh, and when I was still in a corporate job, I printed 30,000 copies of a catalogue with a typo – “cosnumer” instead of “consumer” – on a thumb tab. (Not that it rankles, oh no!)

TI: Is there a company you haven’t written for that you’d like to?
AM: Maybe The New Yorker (a brand of Condé Nast rather than a company). I find that the most rewarding relationships are with individuals not companies. I have certainly pursued companies only to find that the glamour of the brand name didn’t translate into, for example, prompt payment.

TI: So what’s up next? What other projects have you got in the pipeline?
AM: My next book is at the first draft stage. It’s about how to run a successful freelance copywriting business. You know about that one as you generously agreed to let me interview you for it! I’m really excited about it – I think it’s going to help a lot of people avoid the mistakes I made, save themselves a lot of time/energy and make some decent money.

I’m thinking about maybe creating some sort of copywriting inner circle where people join for an annual membership fee and get one-to-one advice, teleseminars and stuff (hmm, that doesn’t sound too businesslike does it?). Watch this space.

TI: Sounds great Andy. Lastly, how can people get in touch with you?
AM: Via our websites www.sunfish.co.uk and www.andymaslen.com. And my blog. Or email me at andy.maslen@sunfish.co.uk. You can also follow me on Twitter @andymaslen.

TI: Andy, thanks so much for your time today.
AM: My pleasure.

Andy Maslen is an independent copywriter specialising in corporate publicity, direct marketing and subscriptions.

He has written copy for online and offline marketing campaigns for, among others, The Economist Group, Emap, the DTI, BBC Worldwide, Hamleys, The London Stock Exchange, The British Standards Institution, The Landscape Design Trust, Euromoney, Informa, Time Out, The New York Times Company and TSL Education.

Andy is a lifetime Fellow of the Institute of Direct Marketing and author of Write to Sell: the Ultimate Guide to Great Copywriting; 100 Great Copywriting Ideas: from Leading Companies Around the World; and The Copywriting Sourcebook: How to Write Better Copy, Faster – For Everything from Ads to Websites, all published by Marshall Cavendish.

I’m a little giddy about this month’s interview. I’m delighted to be joined by copywriting expert/god/guru Andy Maslen, who’s also a well-known speaker, coach and author. During our conversation we discussed everything from Andy’s latest book and the future of copywriting to content mills and Andy’s goal-setting paperclip system!

We talked for a while. So part two of this interview is tomorrow.

Turner Ink: Hey Andy. Thanks for taking the time out to chat. I’ve just finished reading 100 Great Copywriting Ideas, which I found extremely useful. Your latest book, The Copywriting Sourcebook, has just hit the shelves. Tell us a bit about it.
Andy Maslen: Hey Sarah! Good to hear from you. The Copywriting Sourcebook came from a couple of places. One was me thinking back to my early days as a corporate marketing assistant. I had to write for loads of different formats – as I still do – from press releases and exhibition materials to direct mail letters and press ads. I guess I was lucky we didn’t have to write for the web back then – it would only have added to the stress!

Nobody could really tell me much so I spent a lot of time struggling to understand the requirements of the format itself before I could even attempt to write copy. I wanted to create a reference book that would give people lots of shortcuts – on structure, what to include, tone of voice and so on – for 12 formats from web pages to case studies. In an early attempt at coming up with a title with the publishers, we tossed around the idea of Copywriting SatNav. You plug in your destination and the book takes you there by the quickest route.

TI: So it differs quite a bit from your first book Write to Sell?
AM: Yes. In Write to Sell, I wrote a lot about the techniques and principles of good copywriting, but didn’t really give many real-world examples. Both 100 Great Copywriting Ideas and The Copywriting Sourcebook provide examples of actual working copy.

TI: So who’s the Sourcebook aimed at Andy? Other copywriters? Or those people that get dumped with ‘writing words’ as part of their jobs?
AM: It’s aimed at anyone who writes copy, from ‘dumpees’ to pros, but there are three main audiences. In-house copywriters and marketers. Freelancers who maybe want to get someone else’s take on the jobs they write every day. And entrepreneurs who have started a business and need to write copy for their website and offline marketing materials.

TI: I know you’re a busy copywriter, coach and speaker. So how do you find the time to write books as well?
AM: I’m lucky in that I can write fast when I’ve got something to say. When I’ve got a book on the go I set a daily word target, which is the agreed word count for the final book divided by the number of working days till the manuscript submission deadline. Then I put five paper clips on my monitor every Monday morning and put one back in the box for each day I hit my target.

TI: In Write to Sell, you have a useful toolkit for stimulating creative juices (which is stuck to my wall, by the way!). Do you still have times when the words don’t flow? What do you do to get going? Do you use your own toolkit?
AM: I do have moments when it all feels like a grind, but thankfully, the older I get the fewer those times are. I think that’s a product of having a deeper well of past projects and ideas to draw from. I do use my own toolkit – it’s a real list! (And I’m really flattered you have it pinned to your wall!) What works best for me is walking in the garden, and exercise.

TI: Lately we’ve seen the rise of certain sites where you can buy web content for as little as £6 a page. Where does that leave professional copywriters like us Andy?
AM: It leaves us exactly where we were before, writing intelligent, responsive copy for our clients. It’s not in competition. It’s there to a do a different job, which as far as I can see is some very mechanistic SEO ratings improvement. I don’t even believe it will last, as Google is smart enough not be gamed by these tactics.

TI: But do clients recognise quality writing any more?
AM: I think some clients recognise quality writing … and some don’t. You just have to choose who you’re going to work for! I have clients who would give you the bum’s rush if you quoted £20 for a 500-word piece of copy. Others, I know, are dropping their regular writers in favour of the content mills. You can’t argue with that reasoning, you just have to move on and find other clients.

TI: So what’s the future of copywriting? And copywriters?
AM: How long have you got! Here are a couple of predictions. One, it’s not going to go away. Every new technology gives rise to more written communication, not less. Just look at all the white papers, blogs and special reports about social media.

Two, the distinction between web copywriting and print copywriting will gradually disappear. Either because eventually all print media will disappear (unlikely) or because the technology will become so seamless that the focus will shift back to selling/influencing skills rather than PageRanks. Copywriters have a golden opportunity to raise their game – and their income. As more and more people start businesses, the market for copy will increase. But copywriters need to learn or polish some fundamental business skills, like price-setting, negotiating and selling.

TI: Yes, that an interesting point. Great writing skills are essential to being a good copywriter. But you need great business skills to run a successful copywriting business.
AM: That’s right.

TI: You and I chat on Twitter, Andy. What other social media channels do you use, if any?
AM: I use LinkedIn occasionally and now it’s linked to Twitter I like the cross-flow of ideas and readers between the two. I have a blog, which I have recently started posting to much more regularly, again powered by the Twitter effect of being able to tweet about longer and more involved blog posts. I’m on Facebook but very half-heartedly. Jo Kelly, our other copywriter is our Queen of Facebook!

TI: But with the onset of blogging, Twitter, Facebook, etc. do you think writing standards are slipping? Is it now more acceptable to have apostrophes in the wrong place and to write their instead of there?
AM: Writing standards are moving in every direction, all at once. Some people are getting better and better, some not. But what Twitter does is make bad writers more visible. I think the ease and speed of Twitter and the rest, particularly if you’re sending your tweets via your mobile, mean you’re less careful to proofread your stuff. I mean, who proofreads tweets anyway!? (I do – sad.)

TI: I do as well! I also punctuate my text messages.
AM: [Laughing] Well for me, it’s not acceptable to punctuate wrongly or break basic rules of composition, but clearly others feel differently! It does make me smile (ruefully) when I see tweets from professional writers that say “your” instead of “you’re”. Not much of an ad for your abilities, is it?

See part 2 of this interview tomorrow where Andy discusses his next book, his best project of all time (it involves Jeremy Clarkson!), and which company he’d really like to work for.

What do you get when you put four outdoor-loving sports-mad mates together? WideWorldMag.co.uk that’s what. A site dedicated to outdoor pursuits and adventures, and tipped by The Independent as ‘one to watch’ in 2010.

It does help that the four guys involved consist of two experienced journos; a marketing whiz; and a creative web designer. And it’s the designer behind WideWorld’s look, Miles Jepson, who I’m pleased to be talking with today.

Turner Ink: Hey Miles. Thanks for stopping by. How long has WideWorld been up and running now?
Miles Jepson: We went live with the first version of the site in May 2009. We’ve just launched the second version.

TI: So how did it come about and why?
MJ: I’ve known Alex Hannaford and Rob McNicoll for ages and I met Ed Chipperfield through Alex. We’re all keen outdoorsy types. So we finally decided to combine our skills and create a site for people like us, basically!

We thought about it for a year before we launched the site. And of course there were very little in the way of start-up costs as we’re working for free for the first year.

TI: Who’s the site aimed at?
MJ: Well anyone from 16-60 really. Or older. The site is not so much aimed at those obsessive weekly triathlon types. It’s for people who want something new or exciting to do at the weekends. So we cover running, hiking, sailing, skiing, travel, Nordic walking, pot holing, abseiling and outdoor adventures – to name just a few.

We want people to search for activities in their area. And they can do this by just tapping in their postcode. Some recent London trips included a ‘London Canal Safari’ and ‘Sewers of London’ trip.

TI: What are the features of the site then? What do you get if you join?
MJ: Registration is absolutely free. And then you have access to the WideWorld directory which is the biggest of its kind on the Web and includes 100s of activities. There are product reviews and competitions, which you’re automatically entered into. And you also have access to the archive of articles including the popular How to… series.

TI: Oh yes. I’ve read the How to run a marathon and How to survive in a jungle…just in case!
MJ: Those guides have been very popular. Plans for this year include producing the How to…guides as ebooks.

TI: So who’s in the WideWorld team?
MJ: Ed has written for Loaded, The Sunday Times and Men’s Health. Alex has written for The Guardian, The Independent and The Big Issue. Rob McNicoll is an online marketing consultant and then there’s me of course. I’ve worked on design projects for Sony, Microsoft and Reebok.

TI: So where are your contributors based?
MJ: All over the world. We have about 40 journalists and writers who regularly contribute. They review gear, interview sports stars, research travel features and get sent to cover various events. We sent someone to the Barbados Sailing Regatta last year. And we regularly feature explorers on adventures round the globe. Anyone can contribute, in fact. Just send an article to Alex or Ed in the first instance.

TI: The site got very popular very quickly. How did you market it?
MJ: Rob set up a Facebook fan page. And we use Twitter a lot, as well as email marketing. A lot of the site’s growth has been by word of mouth.

TI: So what are the plans for year 2?
MJ: Year 1 was a soft launch really. It was about making sure the site was working really well, and building up our subscribers. We now have 5000 unique visitors a month and 25,000 page views.

In Year 2 we’re pushing the marketing up a notch. We’re going to create customised blogs; we’ve got a couple of contributors who will be on expeditions this year, so you’ll be able to follow their highs and lows via their blog. We’re creating a series of ebooks as I previously mentioned. And we’re just in the process of creating an iPhone app.

TI: So how about the design? What was the thinking behind that?
MJ: I wanted to move away from that loud trashy skater boy look. I wanted a design that was clean and white and appealed to as wide an audience as possible. It’s similar to an online newspaper format and it’s very easy to navigate.

TI: And finally. When free stuff comes into the office, for you guys to review, who gets it? (Hint hint!)
MJ: Hardly ever me! I’ve managed to grab the odd pair of trainers. Oh and I got a pair of goggles once!

TI: Thanks Miles. Visit the WideWorldMag website. And follow them on Twitter.

For this month’s interview I’ve managed to pin down the ridiculously busy Jonny Stark, an Account Director from online PR agency immediate future, to talk about online PR, using Social Media and, of course, Twitter.
 

Turner Ink: Hey Jonny, thanks for stopping by. Ok, tell us a bit about online PR. How does it differ from traditional PR?

Jonny Stark: People get hung up about the differences between online PR and traditional PR. But at their core they’re very much the same: it’s all about relationships. In the old world those relationships are with journalists and analysts. In the new world those relationships are with Facebook users, Tweeps, and bloggers – those with influence.

TI: So how do online press releases differ from offline press releases?
JS: The important thing with any press release is that it tells an interesting story. And that goes across the board, whether it’s online or offline.

The main difference is the issue of search engine optimisation (SEO). A press release for online use will be optimised for keywords or keyphrases appropriate for the campaign. We want anybody searching online for our clients’ products or services to be able to find relevant, positive articles as easily as possible. And you can embed video and images too, which bring the story to life.

TI: So that’s what’s often referred to as SEO PR?
JS: It’s one part of SEO PR: any news releases, blog content, or articles will be optimised with keywords. The other is the proactive influencer relations that go along with it!

TI: So is the aim to drive more traffic to a client’s website?
JS: The aim is to have the first few pages of Google full of positive, relevant articles, reviews or comments about our clients’ products of services. These include not only the press releases and official articles, but also features and posts written by third party influencers because they are interested in what we have to share or say. That can result in increased traffic, but it’s really about building a brand’s reputation…

TI: And how measurable is online PR?
JS: Well, there’s a lot of talk about this. It is measurable of course. There are tools like Google Analytics which measure the increased traffic to your site and the source of the traffic. But that’s only useful if increasing traffic was the aim of the campaign. If it’s about improving brand perception then it becomes a question of sentiment. There are various bits of software that claim to measure sentiment. But the best way is still to use real people! So we take a snapshot of a client’s online reputation at the beginning of a campaign and then we monitor it throughout. There is a ream of data available. The trick is knowing what data to choose and how to analyse it properly.

TI: How is Social Media used in online PR?
JS: Social Media is all about networks. Multiple communication channels which are all interlinked. And we simply use whatever’s the right medium for getting our message across to the right people. So it may mean focusing on blogs, YouTube videos, Twitter or Flickr. But the great thing is, as they are all networked, your campaigns spread out and kickstart conversations all over the place! Interaction is crucial. It’s what makes Social Media so powerful.

TI: Ok, talking of Twitter. How are your clients using it?
JS: BMI Baby, Sony and Total Jobs Group are just some of our clients that are using Twitter. And they’re using it in different ways which are right for their brands. For instance, BMI Baby uses it to let their customers know about the latest deals. While Sony uses it for targeting key media and technology influencers in Europe.

TI: So how involved are you with the tweets? Do you write them?
JS: No we don’t. We encourage our clients to write their own tweets. But we will advise them on relevant trending topics. And we monitor mentions and retweets using tools like TweetBeep.

TI: So why do you encourage clients to write their own tweets?
JS: Well, the whole point about Social Media is that it’s a way to be authentic and transparent with your customers. So whether that’s a Facebook page, Twitter, or blogging, it’s a way of adding a human element to the brand. For me, it’s about enabling a company to reveal itself and build a rapport with its customers. If a PR company writes tweets and blog posts then you lose that authenticity.

TI: How are brands getting onboard with Twitter?
JS: Some are using Twitter very well. Others are not as successful. There are numerous examples where a Twitter account has been set up but there have been no tweets for 6 months. This is actually brand damaging. You’re better off with nothing at all. I think a lot of companies underestimate the time that’s needed to manage their Social Media activity.

With Twitter no one size fits all. It’s really important a company has a clear idea of who they’re trying to reach – whether that’s industry people or customers – before they start using Social Media, and not the other way round. You can read more about brands using Twitter in immediate future’s white paper.

TI: What sort of clients does immediate future work with?
JS: When we started out, we were a traditional B2B PR agency. But in the last few years we’ve become well known for our online PR work for big brands such as Sony Europe, Bailey’s, BMI Baby, Hotel Chocolat and the BBC.

TI: So do you work alongside traditional PR companies? Or instead of?
JS: Some of our clients only run online PR campaigns. But most will do both. So we’ll often work alongside a traditional PR agency or we’ll do the offline PR as well.

TI: How will online PR develop in the next few years?
JS: I think that the digital discipline as a whole will change. Digital teams from CRM, marcomms and PR are beginning to converge already; in my opinion the future will see a full merger.

TI: And how do you see Social Media changing or developing in the next few years?
JS: Well, with regards to Social Media, it’s all about upcoming technological advances – semantic web; faster access including anytime, anywhere access; increased web personalisation etc. and the impact that they will have on our behaviour.

TI: And finally, how did you get into online PR Jonny? Do you come from a traditional PR background?
JS: Well I started out at the London School of Journalism, before getting in to freelance publishing and working for a number of traditional PR agencies. But with online PR the core skills are the same – being able to spot a story, building relationships… I think the best online PRs come from a traditional PR background, although I would say that!

TI: Thanks Jonny for your time. 

Jonny Stark, Account Director at immediate future, has worked across a number of on (and off) line campaigns for a wide variety of immediate future’s clients. From conversations about Hotel Chocolat’s luxurious chocolate treats, to talking about the new must-have TV from Sony, he has gained valuable experience as a digital implementer, not just a digital theorist.

As a result, he has seen firsthand what works and, perhaps more importantly, what doesn’t.

This month’s interview is with colleague and SEO consultant Rob Dobson of SEM London. Over a pot of hummus and some carrot sticks (true!) we chatted about a number of things including, why blogging is so great for SEO, the future of SEO, and why Rob still hasn’t got any content on his website!

Turner Ink: Ok Rob. Tell us a bit about what you do. You do more than keyword research don’t you?
SEM London: Well what I do is market a company on the internet. I increase a company’s internet presence. So that includes detailed keyword research, website optimisation and inbound linking. And then of course there’s PPC campaigns, integrating blogs into websites, and helping clients set up their Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn pages. So yes. It’s a bit more than keyword research.

TI: How has your work changed from a couple of years ago?
SEM: Well, I guess the use of social media has been the biggest change. Potential customers now expect companies to engage with them on different levels whether that’s blogging, Facebook, Twitter or other social media opportunities.

TI: What’s involved in the SEO process? Where do we start?
SEM: Of course keyword research starts the whole process off and is the most important thing to get right. Keyword research not only tells you what key phrases to target in your content but it can even dictate what web address you choose for your site.

TI: I wrote a post a while back about dodgy SEO ‘experts’. How do you differentiate yourself?
SEM: Well, when I’ve been approached by clients that have worked with other SEOs, the thing they have in common is the lack of proper keyword research. Without detailed keyword research it’s just a bunch of guesswork.

And I don’t bamboozle clients with loads and loads of reports that they won’t read. I’d much rather show clients how to use Google Analytics and analyse other metrics, so they can get a real feel for their visitors, customers and potential customers.

To be honest, I just don’t know how some of these SEO ‘experts’ justify £500 a month and then just chuck a fat monthly report at their clients. So many clients come to me having spent a few thousand pounds – and they’re not really sure what on! If a monthly fee is how you wish to charge then it should be clear exactly what you’re getting for that fee each month.

TI: There still seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors around SEO. Why is that?
SEM: Well there shouldn’t be. It’s true that search engines like Google keep the algorithms – the criteria they use to rank your site – a secret, and, of course, they often change this.

But SEOs should be transparent. You should say what you’re going to do, how you’re going to do it and the sort of results you’d expect to see.

TI: Is blogging important for SEO?
SEM: Definitely. If a search engine doesn’t see your site evolving with fresh content or increased backlinks then, rightly so, it decides your site should be given less weight over time. That’s why SEO and website content is an ongoing thing. A blog is a brilliant way to get new content quickly and easily on to your site. A website should never be ‘finished’!

TI: Do you make any promises about getting a client on to page 1 of Google?
SEM: No never. Because you can’t promise something that isn’t entirely under your control. Organic search results cannot be bought. But with proven techniques your chances are greatly enhanced. So when a company starts an SEO campaign they should realise that it needs its own annual spend and it’s an ongoing process. For large organisations this may even require a new role to be created. Website, Search and Social Media Liaison Manager would be a good title!

TI: Tell us a bit more about link campaigns. Why are incoming links so important for the Search Engines?
SEM: An inbound link is a vote of confidence. A vote from Site A to Site B is saying that Site B is worth checking out. But the quality of links is essential. A hundred links from non related or irrelevant sites is less valuable than five from well renowned and trusted sites.

So a link campaign consists of researching linking opportunities. On a basic level this can be links on free business directories or something like Best of the Web Blogs as well as paid-for directories. On a higher level there are things like article marketing.

TI: What’s around the corner for SEO?
SEM: SEO is still very much in its infancy. So I expect demand to increase and the job of SEO to become harder. Much of the real change will depend on the direction the search engines take. Improvements in localised search and possible changes within paid search will provide new opportunities.

TI: What does an SEO project cost?
SEM: Basic keyword research and website optimisation can start in the region of £1.5k.This will get you started on the road of an SEO strategy. Unfortunately marketing yourself online is an ongoing process and an annual budget should be allocated to it. A beneficial initial strategy may cost up to £5k.

TI: So tell us a bit about your background Rob. What did you do before you became an SEO bod?
SEM: In 1995 I was running a small company’s computer network and maintaining their website. I taught myself HTML and how websites should be built. I even did a few myself although I was never much of designer! I got into SEO back in 2003 as I felt the content and the ‘findability’ of the site was more important than all the design bells and whistles that were going on at the time.

The internet taught me about the internet. And I am constantly learning about this evolving industry.

TI: So what’s happening with your website Rob? When are you actually going to get some content on there?
SEM: I know, I know! I first need to find myself a good SEO copywriter. Ha ha! Time constraints and my clients’ success have meant I’ve been unable to practise what I preach. I guess in a way I’m lucky that I haven’t had time to get my own site – SEM London – sorted. But I will do soon. I promise.

TI: And finally, how can people get hold of you Rob?
SEM: Well I have managed to complete a LinkedIn page!

Rob Dobson is a freelance SEO Consultant. He works with clients directly or via design and development agencies. He has worked for South West Trains, PayPoint, MTV, SITA, and Sanderson as well as many SMEs.

This month’s interview is with Alison Blake, marketing expert, and head of Add Agency, a creative marketing agency based in south west London.

Turner Ink: A few weeks ago I wrote a post about why companies shouldn’t cut their marketing budgets during economic downturns. Are you finding that’s the case Alison? Are companies increasing their spend? Or are they cutting back?

Add Agency: Well spend on printed materials has definitely been cut right back. I wouldn’t want to be a printer right now! But clients are still spending on marketing and much of it is going on online. Clients are realising that they really need an effective web presence, and a cost-effective way to stay in contact with their customers, like email newsletters, or they could risk losing out to their competitors.

TI: So are you doing more online marketing these days with PPC, SEO and email marketing?

AA: Yes definitely. Having an online ‘brochure’ style site is OK if you only expect people you know to refer to it occasionally. If you want customers you don’t know to find you on their own – by searching – then you need to work much harder. That’s where SEO and PPC comes into their own. Lots can be achieved through just SEO but if immediate results are needed then PPC is essential.

TI: What other services does Add Agency offer?

AA: We offer campaign planning, creative design and implementation for all forms of marketing communications. We design corporate identities, create websites, do SEO and online advertising. As well as email and printed newsletters, brochures, direct mail, catalogues and annual reports.

If you have something you need to say, we can work out the most cost effective and creative way of getting your message delivered to the right people

TI: So do clients have a clear idea of what kind of marketing they want when they come to you? Or do they tell you what they want to achieve and you tell them how to do it?

AA: Well most clients come to us with an idea of what they want and we can advise the best way to achieve it, usually through using a mixture of activities, from website updates to email marketing and even printed literature.

TI: What type of clients do you work with Alison?

AA: We work with a wide range of business to business and consumer clients. Understanding the different challenges facing each client is what keeps our day interesting!

TI: What’s your ideal client though? Apart from one with a huge budget?

AA: I guess our ideal client is a company that has been in business for 5 to 10 years. They have experienced rapid growth through the boom times and now need to focus on strengthening their marketing to allow them to continue to grow over the next few years.

They might have marketing expertise in-house, which is good, but not necessarily the design skills to implement their ideas.

TI: Does Add Agency have any particular area of expertise?

AA: Planning and developing testing strategies for direct marketing is actually my forte, but this includes integrated campaigns across all communication channels, i.e. mail, email, press, web and online ads.

TI: What does Add Agency offer that other marketing agencies don’t?

AA: Well our USP is the synergy of our combined skills together with our commitment to long-term relations. For us it’s not about a quick fix. But understanding and developing life time value from our clients. When that level of trust occurs between client and agency then you can really start noticing the results.

TI: What’s been your most successful campaign to date?

AA: That’s a hard one to choose. There’s been a few. But I suppose my favourite would be winning a DMA Gold Award for an internal communications campaign for Royal Mail. On a relatively small budget we had to convince postal workers that Mailsort 3 mail was also important and should be sorted quickly.

It was about taking a technical issue and relating it to individuals on a personal level, so they could see the impact the activity had upon others. We used a mixture of creative workplace posters as well direct mail. And as a result of the campaign we improved service by about 28%.

My job is all about understanding client problems and identifying what needs to be achieved. I then have to bring out the best in the creative teams, so they can deliver imaginative and outstanding campaigns for our clients.

I also remember my worst campaign quite clearly. We launched a unit trust for Commercial Union on Black Monday 1987 when the worldwide stock markets crashed. We didn’t even recoup the £7m marketing costs!
I learnt that timing can have a far more major effect on results than any creative message!

TI: Have you always been a marketing ‘bod?’ What’s your background Alison?

AA: Yes, thoroughly marketing, I’m pleased to say. After graduating I went straight into classic FMCG training. I then completed a diploma in direct marketing which opened my eyes to the benefits of measureable marketing, testing and targeting your message to individual audiences.

I’ve worked both agency and client side, including time as European Marketing Manager for Philips and Marketing Manager at HarperCollins. And I’ve worked in top advertising agencies like Leo Burnett and BMP which was great fun. I long for some of the budgets and campaigns we used to control. Now it’s the same theory but just smaller budgets!

TI: So how did Add Agency come about? What prompted you to set up your own agency?

AA: I had been working at my previous agency for nearly 6 years but I recognised that the industry was changing and that budgets were moving from traditional print to digital marketing. We didn’t have the facilities to expand in-house so I decided it was a good time to leave, and set up my own agency in 2006.

TI: Thanks Alison. If someone wants to discuss a marketing campaign with you, what’s the best way to get in touch?

AA: They can call us on 020 8973 4320 or drop us an email at enquiries@addagency.co.uk. Or visit the Add Agency website for more information on some of our recent projects. Thanks Sarah.

Alison Blake is founder and director of Add Agency based in London. Her experience covers both B2C and B2B accounts, working in top London advertising and direct marketing agencies, Leo Burnett, BMP and Grey (now Joshua), for clients such as Royal Mail, Orange, Cigna Insurance, Commercial Union and Pedigree Petfoods.

She has worked client side as European Marketing Manager for Philips Electronics and as Marketing Manager at HarperCollins publishers. And provided in-house training for the Institute of Direct Marketing, Lorien, The Royal Bank of Scotland, Royal Mail and Ford.

Alison is a Fellow of the Institute of Direct Marketing.

This month’s chat, over a mint tea and latte, is with Jill Kent of PR Superstar fame, who manages to hit the headlines for all the right reasons.

Turner Ink: Hey Jill. Thanks for dropping by. So how do you go about developing a PR strategy for your clients? What’s the first thing you do?

PR Superstar: Well a good PR Strategy is all about effectively communicating key messages, about a brand or a personality, to its target audiences. That’s it in a nutshell. So the first thing I do is sit down with a client and get a full briefing to find out all about them, their business, and their goals. PR isn’t about boosting business egos, it’s about boosting business growth.

TI: Now I know you’re super successful; I’m always seeing your clients in the media. But what’s been your most successful PR campaign to date?

PR: I’ve had many successful PR campaigns, from getting clients on to national and international TV, such as the BBC, Sky News and CNN right through to securing coverage in well-respected newspapers and magazines, such as The FT, The Times, The Telegraph, Esquire, GQ, Vogue and Marie Claire. There’s been a few.

TI: So, how did you come to work in PR? What’s your background?

PR: Well, I’m proud to say that I’m a journalist by trade, a fully qualified senior reporter. I moved into PR after nearly a decade as a journalist because I fancied a new challenge. But after scaling the dizzy heights of chief reporting for one of the UK’s biggest-selling newspapers, I had to start at the bottom of the PR ladder as a publicity assistant. It took me another few years to become a PR and communications director.  

TI: How has the PR industry changed in the last 5 years? And how will the PR industry develop in the next five years, do you think?

PR: PR has changed enormously and Social Media is now hugely influential. PR Week, my industry bible, is obsessed with Twitter in particular! The online world has opened up so many possibilities for PR agencies and their clients and it’s all very exciting. I think Social Media and its use as a PR tool will only continue to grow at phenomenal rates.

With the recession, many PR agencies have had to make cutbacks and redundancies. Some have even closed. The pressure is now on for agencies to deliver real value-for-money campaigns that have a real impact on their clients’ bottom-lines. And that can only be a good thing.

TI: Talking of Social Media, are you managing online PR campaigns as well? Are you getting involved with Twitter and Facebook?

PR: With my background as a print journalist, I am a traditional PR specialist working with newspapers, magazines, TV and radio. I do, however, work closely with online PR and marketing experts who handle the Social Media side of things for my clients. I stick to what I do best!

TI: But with the rise of Social Media, do you think the traditional news release is on its way out?

PR: No, I don’t think so, not yet. It’s still a popular way of telling a client’s story. Journalists are always asking for them when I call. The release must be newsworthy though!

TI: Do you use services like PR Newswire or Business Wire to send news releases?

PR: No, I have my own trusted network of media contacts at local, regional, national and international level. Good PR is all about targeting and I like to decide who gets what and keep some control over it. My PR is bespoke. This way I negotiate many regional and national exclusives for clients that other media then pick up on and run with.

TI: Do still need to have great relationships with newspaper editors to get good coverage? Does that involve boozy lunches?

PR: Ha, ha, no, not at all! To get good coverage, you need to have a ‘nose for news’ i.e. a strong sense about what makes a good story. It wouldn’t matter how many expensive dinners editors and journalists were treated to, if they’re not interested in the story that’s that.

TI: So tell me Jill, why should a company hire a PR professional?

PR: Nearly all of my clients have tried to do their own PR and failed. Good PR is an art. If you want big chunks of impressive coverage in your target media that are on-message and make people want to buy your product or service, it’s best to hire a PR pro.

TI: Have you ever had to handle a crisis for a client? What happened?

PR: Yes, many! I’ve PR’ed for large local authorities, government departments and one of the biggest police forces in the UK, so there’s always something going on – or should I say going wrong!

I’ve had to deal with the media fall-out of suspended teachers and council officials; terror suspects held at Guantanamo Bay; old folk dying in council care; and police officers accused of brutality and fraud. The list is endless! Crisis PR teaches you to try to seek out all possible scenarios about what can go wrong and then prepare for them as best you can. That’s not always possible. So if a crisis does happen, the PR machine should swing into action and be seen to act swiftly, whether it’s imparting crucial information to the public or issuing a full and frank apology.

TI: There seem to be so many releases sent out with grammar and punctuation errors. Does it matter that PRs get this wrong?

PR: Yes, absolutely! At the end of the day, we’re representing a business, brand or personality and we have to be the consummate professional. It’s not only our reputation on the line, it’s that of our client too. Besides, we’re lucky enough to be wordsmiths for a living and there’s no excuse for not getting it right.

TI: Well I totally agree with that. So tell us about your typical week. Is there a typical week?

PR: There isn’t such a thing. One day I can be working with Today’s Golfer, Sailing Today and Rugby World magazines. And the next I’m working with Vogue, Elle and Tatler. Or one minute I can be working with local press like the The Wimbledon Guardian or The Richmond and Twickenham Times. And the following day I’m talking to The Sun and The Independent.

My clients also vary enormously – they include an award-winning estate agent, a Harley Street celebrity therapist; a big e-commerce retailer; a British beauty guru; SMEs; and big corporates. I enjoy the variety of clients and variety of media.

TI: What are PR Superstar’s plans for the future?

PR: To keep delivering great PR for my clients. PR that makes a difference to their bottom-line, that’s what it’s all about at the end of the day. I want PR Superstar to be well-known for quality campaigns, hard work, dedication and honesty. I’d also like to be in a similar position to Max Clifford who apparently doesn’t pitch for any work!

TI: That would be nice! So what are the three most important things for a successful PR campaign?

PR: Right three things. I’d say innovation, creativity and dynamism.

TI: And finally Jill. How do people who want great PR get hold of you?

PR: They can call us on 020 8274 0807 or visit the PR Superstar website. Thanks Sarah. 

 
PR Superstar founder, Jill Kent is a highly experienced senior journalist and PR professional with nearly twenty years’ experience in the media world.

Her journalist-led public relations consultancy is focussed on getting the benefits of a business across to target markets; boosting profiles and sales; and business growth.

South London entrepreneur Richard Reid said, “we were featured on national TV and radio, and splashed across the regional and national press soon after we started working with PR Superstar! They exceeded my expectations with first-class media coverage for my three businesses.”

A couple of weeks back I had a chat with Rob Brown about all things Social Media. During the interview I came over all excited when I started talking about Twitter which, for those of you that follow me, know I love, love, love. (Curiously, I was at a networking event the other week and was asked did I work for Twitter, such was my enthusiasm.)

Anyway, here’s what I had to say to Rob about Twitter, tweeting, and Tweetdeck.

Just click on the link below to listen. It’s only about ten minutes long.

Sarah Turner talks about Twitter (MP3)

Rob Brown is an inspirational conference speaker, a regular on TV and radio, and has written  over 70 publications on business relationships, reputations and marketing including ‘How to build your reputation’.